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Do you train the congregation to get down if someone starts shooting? A lot of what is on the internet tells people to run, hide, fight. If a shooting starts and 400 people in the sanctuary start running, the armed security may as well not even be there. There will be chaos and they will not be able to engage the shooter for fear of hitting an innocent person. I am just wondering how you train your congregation.
I would love to train my congregation, however, I have not been allowed to do that as of yet. Many churches are afraid to do this type of training with the congregation thinking people will not return to the church. This line of thinking is unfortunate. However, looking at the available video of active shooters occurring inside of churches, almost everybody gets down and very few people actually run.
Keith said what I’ve observed at every church where I’ve worked. That is, the church doesn’t want to involve the congregation (the laity). But most of the churches that hire Peace Officers or Licensed Armed Security (me) are big-to-huge and have multiple Services across multiple days.
And what Keith said about “almost everybody gets down” is accurate. Even go back to Ronald Regan and view photos of his attempted as*****tion, and everyone “ducks down” except for Secret Service and photographers. I had a photography business…we are invincible LOL.
Check out West Freeway Church of Christ on YT and you can see rare footage of how the congregation reacts. EVERYONE ducked except the Security Guard (my hero Jack Wilson). AFTER Mr Wilson dispatched the perpetrator, THEN all of the guys who carry stood up. It’s an awesome example of being in the zone, instead of having your head somewhere else.
Thanks Keith and Bill. This is good to know. I am on our church safety team and I was always concerned if something happened it would be a mad house and there would be very little I could do.
Good stuff as always sir. I like how you addressed training for the most likely. I have lost count how many times in LEO training guys train for the flying monkeys not the most likely to encounter/high frequency stuff. That tends to bleed over into Church and School security. Keep up the good work.
What is your thoughts about having safety teams members, with a policy in place and after proper training, carry handcuffs. I'm a retired law enforcement officer and a now a reserve deputy with over 50 years of experience. I know how useful handcuffs are in using force when force is being met. I'm talking about the suspect has already assaulted someone, not a belligerent or uncooperative subject.
I don't advocate for it. What I'm worried about is the massive amount of training that goes into it. You are essentially detaining someone against their will and if they are wrong, it is false imprisonment and could be kidnapping depending on the state. You'd have to train them on proper use of handcuffs and then go into laws of arrest with continual update training. I'd let it go. It's easy for you and I with our experience, not so much for those without our training.
Excellent and brief. You pared this down perfectly. I'm at a seminar right now and just had the discussion in a breakout and we spent 20 minutes taking about the difference in planning priorities vice react to attack priorities. Love what you're doing, grateful for it, and praying for you.
Your newsletters have a storehouse of very valuable information.
One thing bothers me regarding your subscriptions. I am currently just a visitor and would seriously consider becoming a paid subscription but you never provide any cost or duration information. Hopefully, you can fill this knowledge gap for me.
Thank you for the kind words. This is all run through a platform called Substack. Everything here is free and always will be. Those that choose to do the paid subscription are doing it to help support my efforts. I don't want to make it paid because I know people need the info that can’t afford it. It is $8 a month or $80 year. But, again, it will always be free. I do appreciate and am thankful for those that are helping me out!
The team at my church all have radios along with the teachers and upon any potential issue we have systems in place to secure the classrooms or completely lock down to the point only the police can release them. the teachers are trained to follow the procedures and I randomly drill them. We are fortunate to be in Pennsylvania so most of the team have permits to carry and we discuss procedures frequently. I really appreciate the information you provide it has gone a long way in helping me train the team
Awesome info and your tactical insight is exemplary. Thank you for all the professional advice and techniques you provide brother. May God continue to keep our Sunday mornings calm and quiet in Jesus' mighty name.
The days of solo attackers are coming to a end. Simple. The migrant invasion this former sovereign nation is undergoing will in time produce sophisticated attacks by well armed multiple assailants. Churches. Synagogues. Large gatherings of any description. But ideology will drive most religious attacks. So that begs the question: at what point, ie how many dead bodies does it require for churches to say enough ? Body bags in a state a thousand miles away or one in your county. It can’t happen in my church. But when it does and it will, hopefully church security teams will have anticipated it in time and recommended to leadership:
100% solid, Keith! I am trained as a grunt; my thought process right of bang is ALWAYS eliminate the threat. Begin with the threat closest to you (or your principle if you’re protecting an area or person) and keep moving until the threat is gone. Working as a team is essential, and therefore training is imperative. I was trained to operate in Battle Drills, simple actions trained to become reflexive, so that thought isn’t necessary to begin the mission at hand. That said, getting a lot of people to train regularly is akin to herding cats….!
Do you train the congregation to get down if someone starts shooting? A lot of what is on the internet tells people to run, hide, fight. If a shooting starts and 400 people in the sanctuary start running, the armed security may as well not even be there. There will be chaos and they will not be able to engage the shooter for fear of hitting an innocent person. I am just wondering how you train your congregation.
I would love to train my congregation, however, I have not been allowed to do that as of yet. Many churches are afraid to do this type of training with the congregation thinking people will not return to the church. This line of thinking is unfortunate. However, looking at the available video of active shooters occurring inside of churches, almost everybody gets down and very few people actually run.
Keith said what I’ve observed at every church where I’ve worked. That is, the church doesn’t want to involve the congregation (the laity). But most of the churches that hire Peace Officers or Licensed Armed Security (me) are big-to-huge and have multiple Services across multiple days.
And what Keith said about “almost everybody gets down” is accurate. Even go back to Ronald Regan and view photos of his attempted as*****tion, and everyone “ducks down” except for Secret Service and photographers. I had a photography business…we are invincible LOL.
Check out West Freeway Church of Christ on YT and you can see rare footage of how the congregation reacts. EVERYONE ducked except the Security Guard (my hero Jack Wilson). AFTER Mr Wilson dispatched the perpetrator, THEN all of the guys who carry stood up. It’s an awesome example of being in the zone, instead of having your head somewhere else.
Thanks Keith and Bill. This is good to know. I am on our church safety team and I was always concerned if something happened it would be a mad house and there would be very little I could do.
Thank you Keith,
I’m a Vietnam Veteran , combat during TET!
And this ranks in the top 10 of the information you have shared in my mind.
Thank you for your heart for God and fellow Church people.
You voiced exactly what I’ve been thinking since joining our Safty Team. Blessings my friend.
Good stuff as always sir. I like how you addressed training for the most likely. I have lost count how many times in LEO training guys train for the flying monkeys not the most likely to encounter/high frequency stuff. That tends to bleed over into Church and School security. Keep up the good work.
Good stuff! Thank you for providing this information so our security team can constantly be thinking and reviewing our procedures
Excellent 👍👍👍,
Gotcha, brother. I'll put my thought to rest.
What is your thoughts about having safety teams members, with a policy in place and after proper training, carry handcuffs. I'm a retired law enforcement officer and a now a reserve deputy with over 50 years of experience. I know how useful handcuffs are in using force when force is being met. I'm talking about the suspect has already assaulted someone, not a belligerent or uncooperative subject.
I don't advocate for it. What I'm worried about is the massive amount of training that goes into it. You are essentially detaining someone against their will and if they are wrong, it is false imprisonment and could be kidnapping depending on the state. You'd have to train them on proper use of handcuffs and then go into laws of arrest with continual update training. I'd let it go. It's easy for you and I with our experience, not so much for those without our training.
Thanks, sir. Good information to have. We need to be realistic about our abilities and close the distance accordingly.
Excellent and brief. You pared this down perfectly. I'm at a seminar right now and just had the discussion in a breakout and we spent 20 minutes taking about the difference in planning priorities vice react to attack priorities. Love what you're doing, grateful for it, and praying for you.
Your newsletters have a storehouse of very valuable information.
One thing bothers me regarding your subscriptions. I am currently just a visitor and would seriously consider becoming a paid subscription but you never provide any cost or duration information. Hopefully, you can fill this knowledge gap for me.
Thank you for the kind words. This is all run through a platform called Substack. Everything here is free and always will be. Those that choose to do the paid subscription are doing it to help support my efforts. I don't want to make it paid because I know people need the info that can’t afford it. It is $8 a month or $80 year. But, again, it will always be free. I do appreciate and am thankful for those that are helping me out!
Thank you Keith. The more practical knowledge you have learned and pass onto team, the better ( hopefully) we can train our teams, pastors and elders.
As a former Cali state park PO Ranger I have found reviewing in my mind as I am at church, keeps me sharp and potentially ready.
Would like to come down and talk to you some time. Our church is in north central Idaho.
My assignments in Cali were up in the north coast redwoods for many years.
I’ve got a few cop friends that retired to where you are. I have no doubt you are running into them!
I wish I had some at our church. We have about 6 members, but I’m the only retired PO.
But we have a Christian police chief and a Christian sheriff whom I’m hoping to have a lot of joint training.
As a former EMT, firearms instructor and first responder trainer, we have lots to do to get proficient.
Maybe someday we can get several church teams together and see if you could come up for training.
How many would be worth your time and what cost are we looking at?
We are in Moscow/ Pullman/ Lewiston areas.
I live out in the woods and have plenty of room for you to stay.
I might be able to get police officers for training also, either jointly or separate day for them.
On another note, we have started a group of retired men and women (226 is our title and it is based on James 2:26.)
We go out into the community and at church and volunteer our time and materials expressly to show God’s love.
Maybe you have retired men that need to keep ministering. We could assist getting something started if there was any interest?
God bless
Thank you
Ron Jones
208-892-4617
The team at my church all have radios along with the teachers and upon any potential issue we have systems in place to secure the classrooms or completely lock down to the point only the police can release them. the teachers are trained to follow the procedures and I randomly drill them. We are fortunate to be in Pennsylvania so most of the team have permits to carry and we discuss procedures frequently. I really appreciate the information you provide it has gone a long way in helping me train the team
Awesome info and your tactical insight is exemplary. Thank you for all the professional advice and techniques you provide brother. May God continue to keep our Sunday mornings calm and quiet in Jesus' mighty name.
good points
The days of solo attackers are coming to a end. Simple. The migrant invasion this former sovereign nation is undergoing will in time produce sophisticated attacks by well armed multiple assailants. Churches. Synagogues. Large gatherings of any description. But ideology will drive most religious attacks. So that begs the question: at what point, ie how many dead bodies does it require for churches to say enough ? Body bags in a state a thousand miles away or one in your county. It can’t happen in my church. But when it does and it will, hopefully church security teams will have anticipated it in time and recommended to leadership:
“ Time to meet in homes”.
100% solid, Keith! I am trained as a grunt; my thought process right of bang is ALWAYS eliminate the threat. Begin with the threat closest to you (or your principle if you’re protecting an area or person) and keep moving until the threat is gone. Working as a team is essential, and therefore training is imperative. I was trained to operate in Battle Drills, simple actions trained to become reflexive, so that thought isn’t necessary to begin the mission at hand. That said, getting a lot of people to train regularly is akin to herding cats….!