I love your podcasts. The deciding point for many, including myself, is the co$t of equipment. Many CAN’T afford the high speed, low drag high quality cool stuff. My carry is a $300 s&w sd9. I carry pepper gel, $15 @ Amazon. I also carry a pocket knife. My holster is a $20 shoulder holster, bought at a gun show. The thing is…it works. I / we don’t get a congregational allowance for equipment. Many of us are on a fixed income, so we have the choice of taking care of our home or wearing body armor. No sniveling, it’s just the way it is. Keep up the good work.
Hellcat Pro w/HS407K & TLR-7X Sub in a T-Rex Arms Sidecar holster AIWB, Kore essentials belt, CAT-T, Spyderco Military 2, Baofang w/upgraded clear earpiece with PTT for coms.
my EDC is Glock 19 15 rounds with Iron sights and an OLIGHT flashlight (plus (2) "Clinch Pic" "get off me knifes" and a Kershaw folder (in case theres cheesecake)) on Sundays I wear a sport coat and use an OWB "Amazon" holster. Normally I carry a 15 round spare mag but on sundays I carry (2) 24 round magazines and a can of pepper spray in my left outside coat pocket. in the right outside coat pocket is a vacuum sealed kerlix bandage and my right ankle keeps my personal CAT tourniquet (we have 2 fully stocked major bleeding kits in the church) I also carry a radio with earpiece during church (family radios ... low budget). my backpack keeps 2 more 15 round magazines and an extra CAT.
I also carry a small flashlight with no gun attached!
I'm carrying 124gr Federal HST hollow points.
I have a 300BO JAKL pistol "bag gun"want to get trained on and incorporate but haven't figured out the best protocol for that ("better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it"- Augustus McCray)
no body armor yet.
we are only a 2 person team for a 30 person church in Texas.
Also... We can't afford Bollards yet so we are using our cars and trucks at the main entrance to make a "drive in shooting" more difficult.
we have a camera system, burglar and fire alarm
And, most important, we use the MinistrySafe system for our Child Safety Ministry
I deeply appreciate your knowledge, calling, time and effort to bring the rest of us up to speed.
"Haters be Hatin'" let it be like water off a ducks back!
I am still mad at you for making me spend the money on that 300BO JAKL but I'll get over it..... in time! 😄
I carry a Shadow Systems MR920 Elite with Comp, a Holosun 509t x2, Olight Baldr Pro, and a CAA MCK 3.0 with my G19 Gen 5 in it, with 180 rounds in my Savior Equipment Tactical 20” bag. I just ordered my Premier Body Armor “Everyday Armor 360”. Ordered a white and an extra black T-shirt.
Echelon 4.5 inch compensated barrel. Holosun 509t, streamlight tlr-7hlx, two spare 20 round mags, federal 124gr HST +P. Midland business radio with earpiece, cat tourniquet, small POM pepper spray, streamlight protac 1 flashlight. This setup have served me well for many years. I suspect it will in the years to come.
Sig P226 XFive Legion 9mm RomeoXPro 6MOA Green dot, 20 rd mag x6 of Speer Gold dot JHP 124 Gr +P. AR15 DiamondBack Lower/BCM 12.5” upper Red dot with 4x Mag, 10x30 rd mags, Sig 700 Lumen light and handheld flashlight. Med kit LBE vest, POM spray x3, 1 carry 2 in truck (I patrol a 110 acre campus/parking lot while the service is in progress.
Glock 19 Gen 5 w/COA and Surefire U300, Tulster ARC holster, Fox EDC modified karambit made for War Poet, extra +2 mag. I also have a newer Springfield Echelon 4.0 COA with same model holster and Streamlight TLR-1 HLX, but have been practicing with it before putting it in rotation.
Sorry, one more thought. As you have stated, situational awareness and alertness are the gold standard. If you have $10K invested in your gear but have your attention playing Donkey Kong on your phone, and a woman walks by us carrying an M4, what good is all our cool stuff?
I often carry a Kahr pm 9 and sit next to the entrance of the sanctuary. I sit on the left side facing the front. Most are Rt handed so I figure this gives me a second more reaction time. Retired in Texas from OC California.
I often carry crossdraw when at church given I will most likely be sitting. My wife is generally sitting on my right (strong) side so it makes access a bit easier.
She is to run toward the front of the church where there is a door to the sancristy (hallway/room) behind the alter. Exists to the parking lot. She is to leave with the car and park it down the street. Expect the cops to lock the area down meaning you won’t be able to drive off for a bit. Moving the car gives her the ability to leave and bring me back some food in the event of a shooting.
Echelon 4.0c with Compensated barrel/slide, Viridian Green dot optic,in a Crossbreed Reckoning holster, 15 RDS in gun 18 RDS on belt (Federal “Law Enforcement” tactical 147 Gr HST ammo) along with a fixed blade K-Bar TDI investigator, rapid deployment sash (yellow with SAFETY on it)radio, Fenix flashlight and Sabre defense sticky pepper spray. Our church doesn't allow us to stage or bring carbines on site…we typically have a uniformed officer there with body armor and full kit as well as a carbine in his cruiser.
Keith you covered some great ground and I agree on several things.
Carry a full size handgun (with quality defense ammo, I think 9mm is the best compromise of effectiveness ballistics, recoil management and number of rounds), with quality red or green dot optics and white light, in a quality holster with spare magazines. So what do you have as standards for your people, particularly the 65+ crowd that just isn't going to carry all that nowadays?
Using that system to fight your way to a rifle is a great plan as well. I would like to see more breakdown on church security rifle setups (caliber, size, suppressed, sling options, stock/brace options and carry systems). How many are at a service and what kind of qual standards are you using for those that are trained to have them? How far away is the rifle? How is it secured, deployed etc. Important topics.
I would like to have seen more of what was in your grey bag worn on your side and when/how you intend to use or deploy that.
Less-lethal options, I think, are a must to bridge de-escalation-verbal and a gun, to show reasonableness. Pepper-spray is the common one, but small plain-clothes sized expandable batons can have their place as well.
When it comes to your radio, what is your earpiece/PPT setup on those radios?
Also I did not see any type of restrains (zipties, handcuffs etc)? What is your plan with that?
Lastly, since you were discussing your EDC, aside from a CAT, what other medical are you carrying on your person or in a bag? I assume chest seals and wound packing material.
Got you. I teach a lot of church security folks, and most have no police background, so my concern about cuffing people was primarily directed toward them. We teach that church security’s role is to restore peace and order, not conduct a criminal investigation, but we have clients who detain homeless people, etc. for disorderly conduct instead of breaking contact and letting the police deal with them. My concerns were focused on them, not the cops who know the system and protocols. Thanks again for giving me the opportunity to clarify.
Zip-ties are okay when the “bad guy” is compliant, but getting them onto a resisting subject is harder than holding on to the greased pig at the county fair. That said, for what we do, there appears to be little need for handcuffing a compliant subject. We advocate using cuffs for safety reasons only, as we’re not acting in a police role and making arrests. I’m not being critical, but simply wanting to share my experience from 50 years of first policing, then corporate security, and now as a volunteer in church security. God bless!
Thanks John. Like you, many of us have decades of LE experience. Specific to Church Security, restraints have their place, to be sure. I was not referring to cuffing a compliant person, so I'm not sure where that came from and in fact don't know what the point would be to cuff a compliant person anyway, in the church security setting. My question to Keith was WHICH type of restrains does he carry while serving in the Church security capacity. We're not doctors either, yet we carry medical supplies for use in traumatic wound care, as we are carrying guns and may have to stop bad guys with guns. When it comes to handcuffs or other restraints, we DO secure people with handcuffs that we have shot. We also may have to use restraints on a combative person until LE arrives. Flight attendants use restraints against combative persons until LE can assist as well. So, since we carry equipment that we may have to use in dealing with combative and violent people, the question remains.
Thank you sir for sharing your podcast. A friend sent this video to me. I have shared it with my security team at church and my dad who is a pastor in alaska and his team. Thank you for bringing up ammo capacity. One thing I have noticed in some teams is that they dont carry extra mags. I carry a psa dagger with a red dot and flashlight. Thank you again for caring for your brother's in Christ. God bless you.
I love your podcasts. The deciding point for many, including myself, is the co$t of equipment. Many CAN’T afford the high speed, low drag high quality cool stuff. My carry is a $300 s&w sd9. I carry pepper gel, $15 @ Amazon. I also carry a pocket knife. My holster is a $20 shoulder holster, bought at a gun show. The thing is…it works. I / we don’t get a congregational allowance for equipment. Many of us are on a fixed income, so we have the choice of taking care of our home or wearing body armor. No sniveling, it’s just the way it is. Keep up the good work.
Hellcat Pro w/HS407K & TLR-7X Sub in a T-Rex Arms Sidecar holster AIWB, Kore essentials belt, CAT-T, Spyderco Military 2, Baofang w/upgraded clear earpiece with PTT for coms.
I have p30 and two mag on my personal and body armor of my shirt, and in my truck I have AR 15 Pistol I can get too.
my EDC is Glock 19 15 rounds with Iron sights and an OLIGHT flashlight (plus (2) "Clinch Pic" "get off me knifes" and a Kershaw folder (in case theres cheesecake)) on Sundays I wear a sport coat and use an OWB "Amazon" holster. Normally I carry a 15 round spare mag but on sundays I carry (2) 24 round magazines and a can of pepper spray in my left outside coat pocket. in the right outside coat pocket is a vacuum sealed kerlix bandage and my right ankle keeps my personal CAT tourniquet (we have 2 fully stocked major bleeding kits in the church) I also carry a radio with earpiece during church (family radios ... low budget). my backpack keeps 2 more 15 round magazines and an extra CAT.
I also carry a small flashlight with no gun attached!
I'm carrying 124gr Federal HST hollow points.
I have a 300BO JAKL pistol "bag gun"want to get trained on and incorporate but haven't figured out the best protocol for that ("better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it"- Augustus McCray)
no body armor yet.
we are only a 2 person team for a 30 person church in Texas.
Also... We can't afford Bollards yet so we are using our cars and trucks at the main entrance to make a "drive in shooting" more difficult.
we have a camera system, burglar and fire alarm
And, most important, we use the MinistrySafe system for our Child Safety Ministry
I deeply appreciate your knowledge, calling, time and effort to bring the rest of us up to speed.
"Haters be Hatin'" let it be like water off a ducks back!
I am still mad at you for making me spend the money on that 300BO JAKL but I'll get over it..... in time! 😄
Semper Fidelis!
I carry a Shadow Systems MR920 Elite with Comp, a Holosun 509t x2, Olight Baldr Pro, and a CAA MCK 3.0 with my G19 Gen 5 in it, with 180 rounds in my Savior Equipment Tactical 20” bag. I just ordered my Premier Body Armor “Everyday Armor 360”. Ordered a white and an extra black T-shirt.
Echelon 4.5 inch compensated barrel. Holosun 509t, streamlight tlr-7hlx, two spare 20 round mags, federal 124gr HST +P. Midland business radio with earpiece, cat tourniquet, small POM pepper spray, streamlight protac 1 flashlight. This setup have served me well for many years. I suspect it will in the years to come.
Sig P226 XFive Legion 9mm RomeoXPro 6MOA Green dot, 20 rd mag x6 of Speer Gold dot JHP 124 Gr +P. AR15 DiamondBack Lower/BCM 12.5” upper Red dot with 4x Mag, 10x30 rd mags, Sig 700 Lumen light and handheld flashlight. Med kit LBE vest, POM spray x3, 1 carry 2 in truck (I patrol a 110 acre campus/parking lot while the service is in progress.
Glock 19 Gen 5 w/COA and Surefire U300, Tulster ARC holster, Fox EDC modified karambit made for War Poet, extra +2 mag. I also have a newer Springfield Echelon 4.0 COA with same model holster and Streamlight TLR-1 HLX, but have been practicing with it before putting it in rotation.
Been thinking about putting a ramjet on my 19 Gen 5
💯 worth it. You just need to shoot 124 grain and above.
I shoot 124 speer gold dot
Sorry, one more thought. As you have stated, situational awareness and alertness are the gold standard. If you have $10K invested in your gear but have your attention playing Donkey Kong on your phone, and a woman walks by us carrying an M4, what good is all our cool stuff?
great point!. I'm at a small church, as many of no doubt are, and “wear many hats".
distractions are aplenty even when the phone isn't an issue.
thanks for mentioning it. I'll work on being more intentional in my awareness!
I often carry a Kahr pm 9 and sit next to the entrance of the sanctuary. I sit on the left side facing the front. Most are Rt handed so I figure this gives me a second more reaction time. Retired in Texas from OC California.
I didn't think about the shooter being right handed (DOH!).
I'm right handed and dit on the right side (inside aisle) thinking It would be easier for me to draw (3 O'clock to protect my “beans")
and swivel…. providing the threat comes from. the main door of the sanctuary.
Alot to think about for sure! thanks for commenting!
I often carry crossdraw when at church given I will most likely be sitting. My wife is generally sitting on my right (strong) side so it makes access a bit easier.
She is to run toward the front of the church where there is a door to the sancristy (hallway/room) behind the alter. Exists to the parking lot. She is to leave with the car and park it down the street. Expect the cops to lock the area down meaning you won’t be able to drive off for a bit. Moving the car gives her the ability to leave and bring me back some food in the event of a shooting.
Echelon 4.0c with Compensated barrel/slide, Viridian Green dot optic,in a Crossbreed Reckoning holster, 15 RDS in gun 18 RDS on belt (Federal “Law Enforcement” tactical 147 Gr HST ammo) along with a fixed blade K-Bar TDI investigator, rapid deployment sash (yellow with SAFETY on it)radio, Fenix flashlight and Sabre defense sticky pepper spray. Our church doesn't allow us to stage or bring carbines on site…we typically have a uniformed officer there with body armor and full kit as well as a carbine in his cruiser.
Glock 19 typically, sometimes G19x or G45, always in a Tenicor Velo5 AIWB holster, POM spray
Glock 43X with red dot optics.
Sig Sauer P365XL red dot optics and light.
Hellcat Pro, red dot optics.
These are my first choice for CCW.
Sunday EDC:
Flash light
Gerber multi tool
pepper gel
2" fixed blade
S&W M&P 2.O, red dot & light
several back up mags
radio
Keith you covered some great ground and I agree on several things.
Carry a full size handgun (with quality defense ammo, I think 9mm is the best compromise of effectiveness ballistics, recoil management and number of rounds), with quality red or green dot optics and white light, in a quality holster with spare magazines. So what do you have as standards for your people, particularly the 65+ crowd that just isn't going to carry all that nowadays?
Using that system to fight your way to a rifle is a great plan as well. I would like to see more breakdown on church security rifle setups (caliber, size, suppressed, sling options, stock/brace options and carry systems). How many are at a service and what kind of qual standards are you using for those that are trained to have them? How far away is the rifle? How is it secured, deployed etc. Important topics.
I would like to have seen more of what was in your grey bag worn on your side and when/how you intend to use or deploy that.
Less-lethal options, I think, are a must to bridge de-escalation-verbal and a gun, to show reasonableness. Pepper-spray is the common one, but small plain-clothes sized expandable batons can have their place as well.
When it comes to your radio, what is your earpiece/PPT setup on those radios?
Also I did not see any type of restrains (zipties, handcuffs etc)? What is your plan with that?
Lastly, since you were discussing your EDC, aside from a CAT, what other medical are you carrying on your person or in a bag? I assume chest seals and wound packing material.
Thanks for the overall break down. Well done.
Got you. I teach a lot of church security folks, and most have no police background, so my concern about cuffing people was primarily directed toward them. We teach that church security’s role is to restore peace and order, not conduct a criminal investigation, but we have clients who detain homeless people, etc. for disorderly conduct instead of breaking contact and letting the police deal with them. My concerns were focused on them, not the cops who know the system and protocols. Thanks again for giving me the opportunity to clarify.
John
Zip-ties are okay when the “bad guy” is compliant, but getting them onto a resisting subject is harder than holding on to the greased pig at the county fair. That said, for what we do, there appears to be little need for handcuffing a compliant subject. We advocate using cuffs for safety reasons only, as we’re not acting in a police role and making arrests. I’m not being critical, but simply wanting to share my experience from 50 years of first policing, then corporate security, and now as a volunteer in church security. God bless!
Thanks John. Like you, many of us have decades of LE experience. Specific to Church Security, restraints have their place, to be sure. I was not referring to cuffing a compliant person, so I'm not sure where that came from and in fact don't know what the point would be to cuff a compliant person anyway, in the church security setting. My question to Keith was WHICH type of restrains does he carry while serving in the Church security capacity. We're not doctors either, yet we carry medical supplies for use in traumatic wound care, as we are carrying guns and may have to stop bad guys with guns. When it comes to handcuffs or other restraints, we DO secure people with handcuffs that we have shot. We also may have to use restraints on a combative person until LE arrives. Flight attendants use restraints against combative persons until LE can assist as well. So, since we carry equipment that we may have to use in dealing with combative and violent people, the question remains.
Thank you sir for sharing your podcast. A friend sent this video to me. I have shared it with my security team at church and my dad who is a pastor in alaska and his team. Thank you for bringing up ammo capacity. One thing I have noticed in some teams is that they dont carry extra mags. I carry a psa dagger with a red dot and flashlight. Thank you again for caring for your brother's in Christ. God bless you.