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yoppy man's avatar

12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control. - 1 Timothy 2

This is (of course) speaking to the Church (the body of Jesus-Believers). These verses apply to this particular "church" organization/building as well. If you "disagree" with Scripture, take it to God in prayer. You cannot pick and choose the Scriptures you like or dislike! SENIOR Pastor? Yikes...! Un-Biblical...

Woman, your arms are way too short to box with God! You MEN... same goes for us!

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Steve Hardy's avatar

Yes, that "Pastor" did interfere with a lawful law enforcement action.

His actions were unbiblical and bring discredit upon the Body of Christ as a whole.

As mentioned, the proper course of action would have been to wait until the event was concluded and then follow-up with legal intervention, if warranted.

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Mattie Johnson's avatar

Where in the Bible does it say that you shouldn’t stand up for what is wrong!? What about anything that this Administration is doing is “Proper?!” What legal intervention? These people are being deported without due process?!

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Keith Graves's avatar

Mattie, I appreciate your heart for justice. The Bible absolutely calls us to stand up for what is wrong—but it also tells us to be very careful that we’re not standing against legitimate authority or interfering with justice in the name of emotion.

Let’s take your question directly:

“Where in the Bible does it say you shouldn’t stand up for what is wrong?”

It says that many times—but it also tells us how and when to do it. Romans 13:1–2 says:

“Let every person be subject to the governing authorities… whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.”

The early church lived under corrupt regimes, including the Roman Empire, and yet Scripture never instructs believers to physically interfere with law enforcement or block arrests, even when the government was unjust. Instead, Christians are told to:

Pray for kings and all in authority (1 Timothy 2:1–2),

Submit to authority unless commanded to sin (Acts 5:29), and

Speak truth and pursue justice lawfully (Proverbs 31:8–9).

If there’s wrongdoing in the system, there are legal avenues to challenge it. But scripture never commands us to interrupt a lawful arrest—especially when we don’t know all the facts about the person being detained. Doing so risks enabling evil under the banner of compassion (Proverbs 17:15).

As for due process:

ICE arrests are not deportations on the spot. Due process is still required under federal law. People placed in custody go through proceedings. If a wrong is committed in that process, Christians should challenge it with truth, not oppose it at the point of arrest.

God calls us to both compassion and order—not one at the expense of the other.

In Christ,

Keith Graves

Christian Warrior Training

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Donald G's avatar

This female, so-called "pastor" had no idea what was wrong or right about this situation.

By the way, these illegal alien criminals, for whom there are arrest warrants as well as deportation orders, have already had their due process. The ice agents are simply carrying it out.

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yoppy man's avatar

Mattie,

As Keith mentioned... let's stay away from the "poly-ticks", whomever they are. Focus on the Scripture. Politics is intended to, and used to divide us. It is then easier to conquer us. You have heard of the "Divide and CONQUER" strategy in war?

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Mattie Johnson's avatar

When he mentions that we should adhere to those in Government because God put them there…? Then that’s bringing in “Poly-ticks”! You cannot ignore what those in power do that are against humanity! God created ALL of us in his image! This isn’t about emotions this is!a about right and wrong!

With any rules or laws there is a hierarchy, with God at the top—life has a higher priority. IF GOVERNMENT MAKES A LAW THAT VIOLATES MORAL CONSCIENCE THEN IT SHOULD BE RESISTED!

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yoppy man's avatar

Mattie,

Please understand the Scriptures cited by Keith. Those being arrested have broken man's laws which were passed by OUR Government. Entering this Country illegally is breaking the law as passed by our Congress, not one man. We are to be subject to the ruling authorities.

See Acts 5:26-32 (below) regarding obeying God, RATHER THAN obeying "man":

26 Then the captain went with the officers and brought them without violence, for they feared the people, lest they should be stoned. 27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest asked them, 28 saying, “Did we not strictly command you not to teach in this name? And look, you have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this Man’s blood on us!”

29 But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. 31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

Although each of us are born sinful and rebellious, we need to repent and obey God first... and yet be subject to our rulers. The context of these verses in Acts 5 is disobeying "man" regarding preaching the Word (Jesus is the Word).

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Jim's avatar

I’m in agreement with you 100%. The Scriptures you cited are sound applications. Unfortunately, so much of the Church is ignorant of the Word.

“My people perish for lack of knowledge.” Hosea 4:6

As always, truly appreciate your insight and dedication to encouraging us all to do better and be better.

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Gary B Myers OD's avatar

Growing up in Downey, that church has been a culturally defined Progressive denomination/church...... most other churches would have not interferred

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Mattie Johnson's avatar

That’s why most churches are headed straight to hell! Because they talk about it (Gods Word) but they are not about it (God’s Word!

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Donald G's avatar

This is a "Disciples of Christ" organization, masquerading as a so-called "church," which ordains women as pastors. In July 2013 the General Assembly of the Disciples of Christ passed a resolution affirming that openly homosexual individuals were welcome as members and leaders in their church. Their church has also consistently supported legalized abortion. The doctrines of heaven and hell are considered “speculative,” and the DOC takes no official position on either.

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(Mrs G)'s avatar

The pastor interfered with law enforcement

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Mike's avatar

If the church was ablaze in the middle of the night with no staff calling it in, would they be ok with fire department coming on their property, uninvited, to put out the fire? If FD waited to get permission from the ‘progressive’ staff the place could burn down. Then FD would be accused of not doing their job. These liberal nuts always want it their way.

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Matthew T. Adams's avatar

Keith, this is spot on—and it needs to be heard.

We are living in a time where emotion is trying to outrun discernment. I get it—no one wants to watch someone get arrested in a church parking lot. But let’s be clear: feelings do not override law, and emotion does not override Scripture.

Romans 13 isn’t optional. Pastors and Christians alike need to stop reacting based on optics and start leading based on obedience. If the presence of a BORTAC agent doesn’t sober us up, we’re not paying attention. This wasn’t some random overreach. This was a tactical, targeted federal operation that required authority and precision. The church parking lot was incidental—not sacred ground for obstruction.

And let’s not kid ourselves—criminals gravitate to church properties because they think we’ll cave in with compassion. They weaponize our mercy against us. That’s not love. That’s naivety.

This is a wake-up call to every shepherd out there: You are responsible for your flock, not the fugitive. You want to help? Do it legally. Do it biblically. But don’t stand between a lawful arrest and justice and then cry foul when Scripture and law call you out.

We’re not called to be emotional first responders—we’re called to be spiritual warriors. Wise. Discerning. Obedient.

Stand on the Word. Not on the hype.

Let’s get to work.

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Mattie Johnson's avatar

Leviticus 19:33-34 instructs believers to treat foreigners who reside among them with love and respect, as they would their own citizens.

The passage specifically states, "When an alien resides with you in your land, do not mistreat him. You shall treat the alien who resides with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the Lord your God." from Leviticus 19:33-34.

This instruction emphasizes the importance of extending compassion and justice to those who are not native to the land, reminding believers of their own history as foreigners in Egypt.

(CHANGE EGYPT TO AMERICA) ALL of our ancestors came from somewhere else…except the indigenous people! That is God’s Word!

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Keith Graves's avatar

Thank you for raising Leviticus 19:33–34. That passage is indeed God’s call to treat the foreigner with compassion, dignity, and love—and it's a truth Christians must take seriously. We are commanded to love the sojourner because we ourselves were once sojourners (Deut. 10:19). That remains unchanged.

But compassion in Scripture is not divorced from order and justice. The same God who gave us Leviticus 19 also instituted systems of authority (Romans 13:1–7), established laws, and commanded submission to civil government—even pagan Rome. God's Word doesn’t present a contradiction between loving the foreigner and obeying the law; both are part of what it means to walk uprightly.

Romans 13:4 reminds us that the governing authority “does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.”

And 1 Peter 2:13–14 says:

“Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution… to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good.”

When a law enforcement officer detains someone under due process, even if that person is a foreigner, it doesn’t contradict Leviticus—it fulfills Romans and 1 Peter. And as believers, we are called to uphold both mercy and order.

Also, context matters. Leviticus was given to Israel as part of its civil and ceremonial code, but even then, “resident aliens” were expected to follow Israel’s laws (Exodus 12:49). The command to love them did not mean exempting them from lawful standards.

Finally, love does not mean resistance to justice. If the person being arrested has committed crimes or is part of an active investigation, the most loving thing to do—for them and for society—is to allow the legal process to proceed.

I appreciate the dialogue. These conversations sharpen us and bring us closer to rightly handling the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). May we continue to pursue both truth and compassion together.

In His service,

Keith Graves

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Mark's avatar

I would bet this same church did what the governor said during the plandemic and stayed home. But when it comes to actual law they are out in force protecting illegal aliens.

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Mattie Johnson's avatar

Leviticus 19:33-34 instructs believers to treat foreigners who reside among them with love and respect, as they would their own citizens.

The passage specifically states, "When an alien resides with you in your land, do not mistreat him. You shall treat the alien who resides with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the Lord your God." from Leviticus 19:33-34.

This instruction emphasizes the importance of extending compassion and justice to those who are not native to the land, reminding believers of their own history as foreigners in Egypt.

ALL of our ancestors came from somewhere else except the indigenous people!

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Keith Graves's avatar

Thank you for raising Leviticus 19:33–34. That passage is indeed God’s call to treat the foreigner with compassion, dignity, and love—and it's a truth Christians must take seriously. We are commanded to love the sojourner because we ourselves were once sojourners (Deut. 10:19). That remains unchanged.

But compassion in Scripture is not divorced from order and justice. The same God who gave us Leviticus 19 also instituted systems of authority (Romans 13:1–7), established laws, and commanded submission to civil government—even pagan Rome. God's Word doesn’t present a contradiction between loving the foreigner and obeying the law; both are part of what it means to walk uprightly.

Romans 13:4 reminds us that the governing authority “does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.”

And 1 Peter 2:13–14 says:

“Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution… to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good.”

When a law enforcement officer detains someone under due process, even if that person is a foreigner, it doesn’t contradict Leviticus—it fulfills Romans and 1 Peter. And as believers, we are called to uphold both mercy and order.

Also, context matters. Leviticus was given to Israel as part of its civil and ceremonial code, but even then, “resident aliens” were expected to follow Israel’s laws (Exodus 12:49). The command to love them did not mean exempting them from lawful standards.

Finally, love does not mean resistance to justice. If the person being arrested has committed crimes or is part of an active investigation, the most loving thing to do—for them and for society—is to allow the legal process to proceed.

I appreciate the dialogue. These conversations sharpen us and bring us closer to rightly handling the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). May we continue to pursue both truth and compassion together.

In His service,

Keith Graves

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Mattie Johnson's avatar

Jesus sat with the sinners, he helped the poor, and healed the sick! He challenged the status quo…! Jesus said, give Cesar what is due to Cesar and to God what is due to God, but he didn’t say divert from what His word says! Love is what we are to spread! Not hate!

Be honest, this Administration is not just deporting those who have committed crimes!? He is deporting hardworking parents along with their children! Face it and be honest with yourself! Tump is no proponent of law and order! He has broken plenty of laws and today is slowly breaking the constitution apart piece by piece!

I wonder how many will go back when He returns for his people! Narrow is the gate to righteousness!

God’s Word says, There is a way that seemeth right unto man…but in the end it leads to death! There are those who pick and choose what we should adhere to and convince themselves because they did that little part that God will ignore everything else?! There is this scripture that says, that plenty will face Him and say…well Jesus, I casted demons out in your name! Well Jesus, I lived right! Jesus is going to say…you workers of iniquity, I know you not! Another scripture speaks to treating everyone right because you never know when you are entertaining Angels unawares!

There is only one judge! Jesus! Some believe they are judge, jury, and executioner! We are all sinners saved by Grace! And to think because you lived right saves you from hell?! Is being willfully ignorant!

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Michael Compagnone's avatar

Keith, one important fact that was ignored. It seems like I've seen no comments on. Is that this pastor Tanya, who in herself, is not a true biblical preacher, because in first Timothy 2: 11 and 12, it says a woman is supposed to learn in silence and is not permitted to teach, or have authority over a man.

So on the surface, it might look like they were doing the right thing there, but it seems as though there outside of God's design four bible believing church.

Just a small overlooked fact.

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Rick Marckstadt's avatar

Where did my comment go Keith? Did it not post, or did you delete it? I commented on woman being pastors.

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Keith Graves's avatar

I’m shocked you’d think I delete comments.

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Rick Marckstadt's avatar

My bad Keith. I just couldn't locate it. It was my first post or comment and I didn't know where it went, or if it even posted. Sorry

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Donald G's avatar

Proverbs 26:17 "Like one who grabs a stray dog by the ears is someone who rushes into a quarrel not their own."

I.e., don't meddle in others' affairs, about which you are ignorant, or you are likely to get bit by someone.

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yoppy man's avatar

Keith,

Could these men have possibly been "Cartel" impersonating our LEOs? Has it happened, and could it happen?

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Keith Graves's avatar

No. They don’t do that here. They do that in Mexico, but not in the US. You’ve got to let it play out and not interfere. You can call 911, tho, and let them know.

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yoppy man's avatar

And I am not alleging that they were Mexican Cartel members masquerading as U.S. LEOs. I'm just asking if that has ever been attempted here in the States? One of the LEOs looked like a sixteen year old teenager. It looked weird to me.

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Donald G's avatar

All the more reason for this so-called pastor to keep her nose out of it, or she would have wound up dead.

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yoppy man's avatar

I doubt our LEOs would need to un-alive her. It would trigger major unlawful uprisings. Maybe if she she brandished a weapon and rushed them? The fake news would have quite a good time with that story, if it happened!

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Donald G's avatar

I meant if they had been Cartel thugs impersonating our LEOs, then this so-called "pastor" could have wound up dead by sticking her nose into it. (Sorry so late, but I just now saw your reply - not that anyone else is paying attention to either of us. Ha.)

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Michael Sears's avatar

Without a whole team of Bortac agents present It would seem more likely he was just assigned to help just like FBI agents, ATF agents, Dea agents etc. Instead of doing what they are trained for ICE Barbie has assigned every federal badge possible to find and arrest illegals in greater and greater numbers to make quotas.

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